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	<title>Comments on: The Disclosure Race Condition</title>
	<atom:link href="http://spiresecurity.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=82" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://spiresecurity.com/?p=82</link>
	<description>Risk and Cybersecurity Analysis</description>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://spiresecurity.com/?p=82&#038;cpage=1#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiresecurity.com/blog/?p=82#comment-78</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jon -

I am absolutely certain that Sourcefire had the information they published in their blog post prior to making the post. Although with enough time a bunch of monkeys hacking away at keyboards could theoretically come up with the post with no information at all, I guarantee that Sourcefire is a sharp company and the poster knew exactly what he was writing before he hit &quot;post&quot;.

Your reassertion of my strawman argument highlights the power of the &quot;insider view&quot;. The time spent monitoring anything is not free from an economic perspective.

Think of things this way -- if there are a thousand places where this information might be, there is a much higher likelihood that an attacker will come across it sooner if it is published in 500 places rather than if it is published in 5 places.

This is even more apparent if you agree with me that new &quot;bad guys&quot; are being added to the Internet population all the time.

It would be interesting to know how you leveraged the information in Sourcefire&#039;s post personally, but also consider whether your customers, friends, and family could have done anything with it.

Jon - I am not saying the effect is huge, I am asserting that the ratio of exploitation:protection in this situation is higher than it would have been without the post, although perhaps only slightly.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jon -</p>
<p>I am absolutely certain that Sourcefire had the information they published in their blog post prior to making the post. Although with enough time a bunch of monkeys hacking away at keyboards could theoretically come up with the post with no information at all, I guarantee that Sourcefire is a sharp company and the poster knew exactly what he was writing before he hit &#8220;post&#8221;.</p>
<p>Your reassertion of my strawman argument highlights the power of the &#8220;insider view&#8221;. The time spent monitoring anything is not free from an economic perspective.</p>
<p>Think of things this way &#8212; if there are a thousand places where this information might be, there is a much higher likelihood that an attacker will come across it sooner if it is published in 500 places rather than if it is published in 5 places.</p>
<p>This is even more apparent if you agree with me that new &#8220;bad guys&#8221; are being added to the Internet population all the time.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to know how you leveraged the information in Sourcefire&#8217;s post personally, but also consider whether your customers, friends, and family could have done anything with it.</p>
<p>Jon &#8211; I am not saying the effect is huge, I am asserting that the ratio of exploitation:protection in this situation is higher than it would have been without the post, although perhaps only slightly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://spiresecurity.com/?p=82&#038;cpage=1#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiresecurity.com/blog/?p=82#comment-77</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Pete

&quot;And of course Sourcefire had the info or they wouldn&#039;t have been able to blog what they did.&quot;

Orly?

&lt;a href=&quot;http://twitter.com/mroesch/status/1253491039&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://twitter.com/mroesch/status/1253491039&lt;/a&gt;

You shouldn&#039;t assume with such certainty, Pete.

It seems to me that some of the good guys and bad guys were near parity on acquisition costs.  So, we have a case where vendors are selective to whom they distribute information, which to me is a very early 90&#039;s mentality.  Sourcefire worked hard and smart to protect their customers at least at the same level that their competitors offered.  And, if you don&#039;t think &quot;bad guys&quot; aren&#039;t monitoring open source projects and their repositories for security bug fixes or detection code, then you&#039;re being silly.  As you know, the acquisition cost is basically free in this case.  Seems like a good thesis paper or something...

Anywho, to restart #1 and #2 above:

1. The bad guys already have this information
2. The good guys need the information to protect themselves

Yep, sounds right to me...





]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pete</p>
<p>&#8220;And of course Sourcefire had the info or they wouldn&#8217;t have been able to blog what they did.&#8221;</p>
<p>Orly?</p>
<p><a href="http://twitter.com/mroesch/status/1253491039" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/mroesch/status/1253491039</a></p>
<p>You shouldn&#8217;t assume with such certainty, Pete.</p>
<p>It seems to me that some of the good guys and bad guys were near parity on acquisition costs.  So, we have a case where vendors are selective to whom they distribute information, which to me is a very early 90&#8242;s mentality.  Sourcefire worked hard and smart to protect their customers at least at the same level that their competitors offered.  And, if you don&#8217;t think &#8220;bad guys&#8221; aren&#8217;t monitoring open source projects and their repositories for security bug fixes or detection code, then you&#8217;re being silly.  As you know, the acquisition cost is basically free in this case.  Seems like a good thesis paper or something&#8230;</p>
<p>Anywho, to restart #1 and #2 above:</p>
<p>1. The bad guys already have this information<br />
2. The good guys need the information to protect themselves</p>
<p>Yep, sounds right to me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://spiresecurity.com/?p=82&#038;cpage=1#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiresecurity.com/blog/?p=82#comment-76</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jon -

I don&#039;t intend to leave out third party detection/prevention at all. According to reports, Symantec, McAfee, Trend, etc. all had samples. And of course Sourcefire had the info or they wouldn&#039;t have been able to blog what they did.

Good point about open source, but once again this boils down to distribution - how many places an attacker has available with the applicable information.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jon -</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t intend to leave out third party detection/prevention at all. According to reports, Symantec, McAfee, Trend, etc. all had samples. And of course Sourcefire had the info or they wouldn&#8217;t have been able to blog what they did.</p>
<p>Good point about open source, but once again this boils down to distribution &#8211; how many places an attacker has available with the applicable information.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://spiresecurity.com/?p=82&#038;cpage=1#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spiresecurity.com/blog/?p=82#comment-75</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Against my better judgment...

Your argument does not take into account detecting successful attacks against assets.  Your argument seems to be towards preventative controls, such as a vendor-supplied patch.  In lieu of a patch, I think an organization would like to know if an attacker was actively exploiting this vulnerability against their assets.

I&#039;m inferring from the Sourcefire VRT blog postings that Sourcefire was not privy to the information as a &quot;good guy&quot;, so while many &quot;large security companies&quot; had access to the information, maybe not all of them.  And, a vendor that provides information to an open source project will just inevitably leak the information anyway...




]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Against my better judgment&#8230;</p>
<p>Your argument does not take into account detecting successful attacks against assets.  Your argument seems to be towards preventative controls, such as a vendor-supplied patch.  In lieu of a patch, I think an organization would like to know if an attacker was actively exploiting this vulnerability against their assets.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m inferring from the Sourcefire VRT blog postings that Sourcefire was not privy to the information as a &#8220;good guy&#8221;, so while many &#8220;large security companies&#8221; had access to the information, maybe not all of them.  And, a vendor that provides information to an open source project will just inevitably leak the information anyway&#8230;</p>
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